"If I have one criticism of Rick Tocchet, to me he has come in with one way to coach. Good coaches are able to take a player and fit them in. Instead of figuring out how to fit a player into the system, it’s, ‘You don’t fit my style of play. You’re out.’ That’s a fault. Good coaches find a way to make good players fit."
Oof. I know the scout tried to downplay it, but that's a pretty damning comment.
It's one opinion in many. Opinions vary, but I know a lot of people automatically blame the coach when things go south. This team wasn't as talented as some people think, particularly through the middle of the ice. That's a tough handicap to overcome.
That's certainly fair. But Dave Tippett got more out of less. And I can't think of a single player on the team who has done better under Tocchet than they would another coach.
Yes it is. The more I think about it, the more I tend to believe the Coyotes need to move Tocchet out, not OEL. OEL has been a very productive player in the past. What evidence is there that Tocc will EVER be a successful coach?
OEL, like his countryman, holds his future in his own hands. I got to meet him at a Roadrunners game on a weeknight when his brother was playing for the Roadrunners. He came in after the initial puck drop and quietly moved into the middle seat of last row in front of the announcement booth. He clearly just wanted to enjoy his brother's game as a spectator, not a Coyote. I smiled at him leaving him to watch. When the game was over he thanked me for my consideration. Once his brother changed he invited me to take their picture together. Family is everything to him. Shane Doan was/is family to him as are many, if not all of his team mates. He's too kind to call out another player in front of anyone, he, like Shane is a Christian who does not cuss. Doaner's word was "fudge". I think OEL adopted that. He has leadership qualities, especially with younger people. The way he spoke with his brother, with Leighton, and the kids at the Boys and Girls club shows that he can be a compassionate leader. He's not going to cuss or embarrass anyone publicly. He has a different style, he leads by example, builds up rather than tear down, and points out what people do right rather than wrong. It may be too therapeutic for hockey. OEL will do what's best for the team. He hesitated to go to Sweden when his mother was dying until Doaner told him to go because the team needed him. He made sure his brother came to Tucson because it was what was best for his brother. He loves Arizona and it's horses but will go if he believes it's best for the team. I'm hoping that Army will get to see these qualities and what they bring to the team and will beg him to stay, with or without the C. If need be he will give it up if it's deemed best for the team.
This just reassures me that moving him is not worth it. League opinion seems to feel his contract isn't as much of an issue as many harp on, and that he'd almost assuredly not return assets worth his value - a net loss to the Coyotes.
One potential request for future articles like this, could you denote the individuals making comments with something like "league executive #1" and "scout #3" so it's easier to track that individuals full view across comments? As of now we're left to assume they are all answering in the exact same order or guessing based on the context if it's the same person.
Here's another way to look at this situation: PLAN A - Trade OEL, and go into next season with Tocchet and a pu pu platter of OEL replacements. PLAN B- Fire Tocc and start next season with Gerard Gallant and OEL. PLAN B, please!
I am solidly in Oliver's camp - but I'd have to be blind to not notice things seem different with him. Several before me have already noted the upsides of his game on the ice that make his remaining with the Coyotes a no-brainer so I won't rehash - other than to say his upsides well outweigh where he appears to struggle. And is that fair to say he struggles? A missed pass, a turn-over, getting caught flat-footed... in terms of being an actual human being these things are 'average-hockey-player-mistakes'... so sometimes he's average. If he didn't wear the 'C', if his contract wasn't constantly trotted out as part of the argument would we still have the same focus on his average moments? I'd wager not. However, he does wear the 'C' and he earned the contract he now has to live up to - if only there were some sort of phrase about making beds and lying in them... I can certainly remember many times in the past when Doaner was roasted by fans and in the press (and don't get me started on Tkachuk) - maybe that's part of the unfairness too; Oliver certainly spent many years working with Doan, and may have learned many things from him but he is *not* Shane Doan (btw I don't mean that in a detrimental way) and those larger-than-life shoes would be hard to fill for anyone. Ultimately only Oliver can take responsibility for Oliver - which is where all of this doesn't sit right for me. I can't get past those last few moments of that last press conference and how there just seems to be radio silence ever since. I hope the Mr Armstrong takes the time to meet with him (which I am sure he will) and they go forward from there; Bill seems to be taking the reigns right away so I guess we all just wait and see.
This situation screams get rid of Tocchet. Get a coach who’s a proven winner that can give this team a boost. OEL will be better with a fresh start as captain and trading him away will hurt this team. Im hoping Armstrong come into the office and gives Tocchet his walking papers. The last 2 games says it all, 7-1; 7-1. A shameful exhibition.
After reading all comments from the league sources I cant help but think why anyone would consider trading him. No team did more with their Covid 2nd chance than the Coyotes and they gained valuable playoff experience in the process. Like a previous poster said 'trade him just to start looking for exactly the same player' makes no sense. Perhaps some patience until the core guys are older than 22/23 is best?
I’m thinking more about the idea of him going to another team and clicking with the right top pairing defenseman. It seems like the new GM and new ownership could be a good situation to create a sort of coronavirus change-of-pace or reset. Like a staycation instead of relocation. If there was a change of coaching, shifting the C to someone else and keep him an alternate (I think OEL would be accepting of that, especially if there was a very capable person to take it on), and maybe someone else who complements his play? I believe Hjalmarsson was that in the past, maybe something else could work.
That all being said, maybe it is too much a mental fatigue thing, and better just to move on.
Unfortunately it isn’t just OEL who isn’t flourishing under Coach Tocchet’s systems. The list of players who have regressed, at least offensively, is a long one and includes players who started with the Coyotes and players who were traded to the desert.
All coaches have a preferred style of play, a system that they preach to (hopefully) honour it, and pre-conceived notions of the 'kind' of players they want on their bench. Rick Tocchet is a 'grind them down, throw the body, clunk in the corners' type, maybe drop an F-bomb in the dressing room to rally the guys, maybe a little 'old school.' OK, fine. That's his jive. Name one *top-pairing* European D-man in the league today that thrives under that style of play (not counting Zdeno Chara, who arguably has to play that way out of sheer size, and also arguably isn't a top-pair guy anymore). I doubt there's even a handful.
So I am not sure it's a question of Tocchet "changing his system" to fit OEL. By that logic, why doesn't he "change his system" to suit Phil Kessel, a annually out-of-shape player with little to no defensive impact, who sometimes gets in mental slumps (injuries aside) so great that he can't score, which is pretty much the only thing he's even been able to provide as a professional hockey player?
These are player-centric issues. Army has made the choice, it seems, that the changes will be on the roster before they're behind the bench, and I am inclined to agree with them before they have even happened. Much like OEL deserves and would likely thrive under a new opportunity, the right 'kind' of players, whatever that ends up being, will have the same success in the Desert.
I'll bet my $5 subscription fee on that. And that's after conversion to CAD, so it's actually $6.55.
Yes, each coach comes in with a particular style of play they expect from their players. But there also has to be some flexibility. If OEL was alone in not fitting into the system, moving him may make sense. But not one single player has really started in Tocchet's system, while players like Martinook and Domi, who play the style I assume Tocchet would want, were shipped out, partly on his orders. Chayka replaced almost the entire roster, which is more than most coaches are afforded, and we've still struggled. Other coaches join teams and there are immediate improvements without any massive personnel changes. Look at the Lightning under Tocchet and immediately after. I think the team got 30-40 more points the following season. Rick just isn't cut out to be a head coach, case closed. The longer we hold onto him, the more we risk stunting the development of every young player on this team.
Your points are well-taken, man. I love the discussion of both sides and hope we can keep it going. I can't imagine Tocchet's leash is particularly long here.
But, playing devil's advocate, the simple fact is that this team, built in John Chayka's image (as you acknowledge) is not capable of sustained success.
The biggest problem is scoring: pure scorer Kessel, out of shape to begin with, couldn't be bothered to break an iron-man streak and properly rehab. He can't/doesn't defend and so was basically just taking up space. Even healthy, he's got a lot of miles on him and is inflated by the PP, where he gets a solid third of his points (the PP was extra garbage because of John MacLean, who's now gone). Keller's a pure set-up man (imagine him playing alongside a pure, young scorer). Schmaltz was paid on one good season and hasn't done anything since. Otherwise up front: Stepan, while captain material (have you heard the awesome shit he's done on radio in the Valley, in the community in general, as well as being a good, vocal veteran), was never, ever going to solve the 1C problem. Richardson and Grabner are specialist (PK) players only (but isn't it telling how Brad Richardson kept being the one to score clutch goals? I hope he stays). Hinostroza is undersized and being relegated to the 4th line, couldn't accomplish much.
On the back end, the defense has been 'just OK,' made up of players that are 'just OK'. Let me also jump in with how much worse they'd look without Kuemper doing his thing and bailing them out when they often were drastically outshot. Hjalmarsson and Goligoski are diminishing assets (third pair/rotating out on a deep, playoff-pushing squad?) and therefore, now overpriced, which contributes to the cap problem. Demers is not a top-pair D. Oesterle and Lyubushkin are a third pair that play more like a top AHL pair: lots of liabilities and growing pains at the NHL level, with lots of this on D-coach Phil Housley, the rightly criticized scouting/development personnel (the overhauls of which are ongoing) and of course, John Chayka, who left these guys as really the only options for third pairing work. PO Joseph, gone. Kevin Bahl, gone. I think I'm in on Capobianco, who has more than proven himself in the AHL. We shall see.
The cap issue is further compounded by the fact that the Coyotes' core forward and defenceman (Keller and Chychrun) were signed on projections rather than results. This'll look great if they explode in the next year or two. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Kuemper, Raanta, Hill, and Prosvetov - I feel good about our goalie situation even with the likelihood of Raanta being traded. Layer in the recent hiring of Mr. Daccord - I can live very comfortably with this.
That leaves us with the position players that fall in the lineup 'where they belong' based on production trends, keep pace with today's high-speed, high-scoring game AND play to Tocchet's big-and-heavy style: Hall, Crouse, Garland (small, but man, he hits like a bull), Dvorak, Soderberg, and Fischer. Take away the very likely free agency departures.
So we've got one top-6 guy (Garland), a top-level defender (OEL), and a good third line (Crouse-Dvorak-Fischer).
I've rambled on long enough and by now you'll see what I'm getting at. It makes a lot of sense that Army wants to shape the roster his way - its on the ice where things matter most, no? - and you can bet that he will be facing scrutiny right alongside Tocchet if nothing changes in the standings. But if his reputation, work ethic, and hockey ops moves are any indication, we've roped a good one, and I am confident that he will load the bench with the best options available to be a heavy, no bullshit, night-in, night-out contender in the West. Or, at the very least, one that in a few years won't take crap from anyone, and can hang in right through to the long haul.
And I have one more thing for you, sir. A pretty important player came to that garbage team Tocchet coached back in the day...and personally put up back-to-back-to-back almost 100 point seasons. And a pretty talented D-man came along with him. And they just won a Stanley Cup.
I love Oliver and I would hate to see him traded. He is an elite defenseman and those are very hard to find. He is an terrific passer and is great in one and one battles. Watch him against McDavid and you can see what he can do. He was drafted here and grew up here, I know it’s not up to me but, I want him to stay here.
I truly hope this trade doesn’t actually occur—it has tremendous potential to blow up in our faces. OEL at his best is one of the most talented players I’ve seen on this team, a positive representative of our franchise, and a rare example of successful drafting and development.
Like many have mentioned, too many players are struggling under Tocchet—it’s not just a few guys. The chances of us getting anyone back in a trade with an OEL-caliber ceiling is extremely low. It is also very likely that the new guy(s) will underperform under Tocchet, like so many players have before. It’s time to get a proven head coach and repair the relationship.
I think I've said this in a previous comment section, but my personal opinion of what should be done is if the issue is OEL isn't clicking with Tocchet, wouldn't it be cheaper, and better for the long run success to switch coaches, rather than switch the player? But it is certainly interesting, and refreshing to see the perspectives of actual decision makers in the league.
Tocchet needs to go for multiple reasons. It’s fine for a coach to expect his players to play in his system, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. I believe by just looking at OEL’s stats under Tippett compared to Tocchet it’s apparent that the two don’t mesh. It is up to OEL now, his fate is in his own hands.
I'm merciful in my opinion of Tocchet, we see glimpses of what this team can do, just not consistently. What I don't see is the behind the scenes stuff, where coaches truly earn their paycheck. It's quite possible Tocc is doing all the right things and the players just aren't responding. It's also important to remember how much has happened to OEL since the decline started. But it is still on the coach to get the players to respond. Now, I've always believed it's cheaper to change the coach than it is the entire team. I'm putting my trust in the leadership. I like what I'm seeing so far, so I'll trust them.
Google searching didn't pull up much, but I did find out that in 2016 the kings took the C away from Dustin Brown and gave it to Anze Kopitar. So there is precedent for it to work out.
San Jose did it as well pretty recently. It happens. If OEL doesn't make a big deal of it, people will move on. In one sense, recognizing you're not the best choice for captain demonstrates a fir bit of leadership in and of itself.
Trade Oliver and then immediately start looking for another Oliver. Doesn’t make any sense. Particularly with chycrun and soderstrom needing mentors.
There is an argument to be made there. He eats a lot of minutes. Are either of those guys ready to assume that ginormous task?
"If I have one criticism of Rick Tocchet, to me he has come in with one way to coach. Good coaches are able to take a player and fit them in. Instead of figuring out how to fit a player into the system, it’s, ‘You don’t fit my style of play. You’re out.’ That’s a fault. Good coaches find a way to make good players fit."
Oof. I know the scout tried to downplay it, but that's a pretty damning comment.
It's one opinion in many. Opinions vary, but I know a lot of people automatically blame the coach when things go south. This team wasn't as talented as some people think, particularly through the middle of the ice. That's a tough handicap to overcome.
That's certainly fair. But Dave Tippett got more out of less. And I can't think of a single player on the team who has done better under Tocchet than they would another coach.
Yes it is. The more I think about it, the more I tend to believe the Coyotes need to move Tocchet out, not OEL. OEL has been a very productive player in the past. What evidence is there that Tocc will EVER be a successful coach?
Back to back Stanley Cups.
As an assistant. BIG difference.
OEL, like his countryman, holds his future in his own hands. I got to meet him at a Roadrunners game on a weeknight when his brother was playing for the Roadrunners. He came in after the initial puck drop and quietly moved into the middle seat of last row in front of the announcement booth. He clearly just wanted to enjoy his brother's game as a spectator, not a Coyote. I smiled at him leaving him to watch. When the game was over he thanked me for my consideration. Once his brother changed he invited me to take their picture together. Family is everything to him. Shane Doan was/is family to him as are many, if not all of his team mates. He's too kind to call out another player in front of anyone, he, like Shane is a Christian who does not cuss. Doaner's word was "fudge". I think OEL adopted that. He has leadership qualities, especially with younger people. The way he spoke with his brother, with Leighton, and the kids at the Boys and Girls club shows that he can be a compassionate leader. He's not going to cuss or embarrass anyone publicly. He has a different style, he leads by example, builds up rather than tear down, and points out what people do right rather than wrong. It may be too therapeutic for hockey. OEL will do what's best for the team. He hesitated to go to Sweden when his mother was dying until Doaner told him to go because the team needed him. He made sure his brother came to Tucson because it was what was best for his brother. He loves Arizona and it's horses but will go if he believes it's best for the team. I'm hoping that Army will get to see these qualities and what they bring to the team and will beg him to stay, with or without the C. If need be he will give it up if it's deemed best for the team.
That's a really tough move to make. I dunno.
Well put!!
This just reassures me that moving him is not worth it. League opinion seems to feel his contract isn't as much of an issue as many harp on, and that he'd almost assuredly not return assets worth his value - a net loss to the Coyotes.
One potential request for future articles like this, could you denote the individuals making comments with something like "league executive #1" and "scout #3" so it's easier to track that individuals full view across comments? As of now we're left to assume they are all answering in the exact same order or guessing based on the context if it's the same person.
Eh, I like to keep you guessing. Too much of a thread might help you figure out identities. :)
Here's another way to look at this situation: PLAN A - Trade OEL, and go into next season with Tocchet and a pu pu platter of OEL replacements. PLAN B- Fire Tocc and start next season with Gerard Gallant and OEL. PLAN B, please!
I like Pu Pu platters.
I don't like them when they're really poo poo platters.
I am solidly in Oliver's camp - but I'd have to be blind to not notice things seem different with him. Several before me have already noted the upsides of his game on the ice that make his remaining with the Coyotes a no-brainer so I won't rehash - other than to say his upsides well outweigh where he appears to struggle. And is that fair to say he struggles? A missed pass, a turn-over, getting caught flat-footed... in terms of being an actual human being these things are 'average-hockey-player-mistakes'... so sometimes he's average. If he didn't wear the 'C', if his contract wasn't constantly trotted out as part of the argument would we still have the same focus on his average moments? I'd wager not. However, he does wear the 'C' and he earned the contract he now has to live up to - if only there were some sort of phrase about making beds and lying in them... I can certainly remember many times in the past when Doaner was roasted by fans and in the press (and don't get me started on Tkachuk) - maybe that's part of the unfairness too; Oliver certainly spent many years working with Doan, and may have learned many things from him but he is *not* Shane Doan (btw I don't mean that in a detrimental way) and those larger-than-life shoes would be hard to fill for anyone. Ultimately only Oliver can take responsibility for Oliver - which is where all of this doesn't sit right for me. I can't get past those last few moments of that last press conference and how there just seems to be radio silence ever since. I hope the Mr Armstrong takes the time to meet with him (which I am sure he will) and they go forward from there; Bill seems to be taking the reigns right away so I guess we all just wait and see.
I know he has reached out to Oliver's camp but I'm not sure if much came out of that discussion.
This situation screams get rid of Tocchet. Get a coach who’s a proven winner that can give this team a boost. OEL will be better with a fresh start as captain and trading him away will hurt this team. Im hoping Armstrong come into the office and gives Tocchet his walking papers. The last 2 games says it all, 7-1; 7-1. A shameful exhibition.
After reading all comments from the league sources I cant help but think why anyone would consider trading him. No team did more with their Covid 2nd chance than the Coyotes and they gained valuable playoff experience in the process. Like a previous poster said 'trade him just to start looking for exactly the same player' makes no sense. Perhaps some patience until the core guys are older than 22/23 is best?
I dunno. Sounds like both sides are pursuing this now.
I’m thinking more about the idea of him going to another team and clicking with the right top pairing defenseman. It seems like the new GM and new ownership could be a good situation to create a sort of coronavirus change-of-pace or reset. Like a staycation instead of relocation. If there was a change of coaching, shifting the C to someone else and keep him an alternate (I think OEL would be accepting of that, especially if there was a very capable person to take it on), and maybe someone else who complements his play? I believe Hjalmarsson was that in the past, maybe something else could work.
That all being said, maybe it is too much a mental fatigue thing, and better just to move on.
If so, you'd better get requisite return, and that will be difficult in this market.
Unfortunately it isn’t just OEL who isn’t flourishing under Coach Tocchet’s systems. The list of players who have regressed, at least offensively, is a long one and includes players who started with the Coyotes and players who were traded to the desert.
All coaches have a preferred style of play, a system that they preach to (hopefully) honour it, and pre-conceived notions of the 'kind' of players they want on their bench. Rick Tocchet is a 'grind them down, throw the body, clunk in the corners' type, maybe drop an F-bomb in the dressing room to rally the guys, maybe a little 'old school.' OK, fine. That's his jive. Name one *top-pairing* European D-man in the league today that thrives under that style of play (not counting Zdeno Chara, who arguably has to play that way out of sheer size, and also arguably isn't a top-pair guy anymore). I doubt there's even a handful.
So I am not sure it's a question of Tocchet "changing his system" to fit OEL. By that logic, why doesn't he "change his system" to suit Phil Kessel, a annually out-of-shape player with little to no defensive impact, who sometimes gets in mental slumps (injuries aside) so great that he can't score, which is pretty much the only thing he's even been able to provide as a professional hockey player?
These are player-centric issues. Army has made the choice, it seems, that the changes will be on the roster before they're behind the bench, and I am inclined to agree with them before they have even happened. Much like OEL deserves and would likely thrive under a new opportunity, the right 'kind' of players, whatever that ends up being, will have the same success in the Desert.
I'll bet my $5 subscription fee on that. And that's after conversion to CAD, so it's actually $6.55.
This must fluctuate daily!
$6.71 yesterday. You're draining me, Morgan.
lol.
Yes, each coach comes in with a particular style of play they expect from their players. But there also has to be some flexibility. If OEL was alone in not fitting into the system, moving him may make sense. But not one single player has really started in Tocchet's system, while players like Martinook and Domi, who play the style I assume Tocchet would want, were shipped out, partly on his orders. Chayka replaced almost the entire roster, which is more than most coaches are afforded, and we've still struggled. Other coaches join teams and there are immediate improvements without any massive personnel changes. Look at the Lightning under Tocchet and immediately after. I think the team got 30-40 more points the following season. Rick just isn't cut out to be a head coach, case closed. The longer we hold onto him, the more we risk stunting the development of every young player on this team.
Your points are well-taken, man. I love the discussion of both sides and hope we can keep it going. I can't imagine Tocchet's leash is particularly long here.
But, playing devil's advocate, the simple fact is that this team, built in John Chayka's image (as you acknowledge) is not capable of sustained success.
The biggest problem is scoring: pure scorer Kessel, out of shape to begin with, couldn't be bothered to break an iron-man streak and properly rehab. He can't/doesn't defend and so was basically just taking up space. Even healthy, he's got a lot of miles on him and is inflated by the PP, where he gets a solid third of his points (the PP was extra garbage because of John MacLean, who's now gone). Keller's a pure set-up man (imagine him playing alongside a pure, young scorer). Schmaltz was paid on one good season and hasn't done anything since. Otherwise up front: Stepan, while captain material (have you heard the awesome shit he's done on radio in the Valley, in the community in general, as well as being a good, vocal veteran), was never, ever going to solve the 1C problem. Richardson and Grabner are specialist (PK) players only (but isn't it telling how Brad Richardson kept being the one to score clutch goals? I hope he stays). Hinostroza is undersized and being relegated to the 4th line, couldn't accomplish much.
On the back end, the defense has been 'just OK,' made up of players that are 'just OK'. Let me also jump in with how much worse they'd look without Kuemper doing his thing and bailing them out when they often were drastically outshot. Hjalmarsson and Goligoski are diminishing assets (third pair/rotating out on a deep, playoff-pushing squad?) and therefore, now overpriced, which contributes to the cap problem. Demers is not a top-pair D. Oesterle and Lyubushkin are a third pair that play more like a top AHL pair: lots of liabilities and growing pains at the NHL level, with lots of this on D-coach Phil Housley, the rightly criticized scouting/development personnel (the overhauls of which are ongoing) and of course, John Chayka, who left these guys as really the only options for third pairing work. PO Joseph, gone. Kevin Bahl, gone. I think I'm in on Capobianco, who has more than proven himself in the AHL. We shall see.
The cap issue is further compounded by the fact that the Coyotes' core forward and defenceman (Keller and Chychrun) were signed on projections rather than results. This'll look great if they explode in the next year or two. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Kuemper, Raanta, Hill, and Prosvetov - I feel good about our goalie situation even with the likelihood of Raanta being traded. Layer in the recent hiring of Mr. Daccord - I can live very comfortably with this.
That leaves us with the position players that fall in the lineup 'where they belong' based on production trends, keep pace with today's high-speed, high-scoring game AND play to Tocchet's big-and-heavy style: Hall, Crouse, Garland (small, but man, he hits like a bull), Dvorak, Soderberg, and Fischer. Take away the very likely free agency departures.
So we've got one top-6 guy (Garland), a top-level defender (OEL), and a good third line (Crouse-Dvorak-Fischer).
I've rambled on long enough and by now you'll see what I'm getting at. It makes a lot of sense that Army wants to shape the roster his way - its on the ice where things matter most, no? - and you can bet that he will be facing scrutiny right alongside Tocchet if nothing changes in the standings. But if his reputation, work ethic, and hockey ops moves are any indication, we've roped a good one, and I am confident that he will load the bench with the best options available to be a heavy, no bullshit, night-in, night-out contender in the West. Or, at the very least, one that in a few years won't take crap from anyone, and can hang in right through to the long haul.
And I have one more thing for you, sir. A pretty important player came to that garbage team Tocchet coached back in the day...and personally put up back-to-back-to-back almost 100 point seasons. And a pretty talented D-man came along with him. And they just won a Stanley Cup.
Go 'Yotes!
I love Oliver and I would hate to see him traded. He is an elite defenseman and those are very hard to find. He is an terrific passer and is great in one and one battles. Watch him against McDavid and you can see what he can do. He was drafted here and grew up here, I know it’s not up to me but, I want him to stay here.
I do think there is something to that idea that homegrown talent has a little more loyalty to the crest.
I truly hope this trade doesn’t actually occur—it has tremendous potential to blow up in our faces. OEL at his best is one of the most talented players I’ve seen on this team, a positive representative of our franchise, and a rare example of successful drafting and development.
Like many have mentioned, too many players are struggling under Tocchet—it’s not just a few guys. The chances of us getting anyone back in a trade with an OEL-caliber ceiling is extremely low. It is also very likely that the new guy(s) will underperform under Tocchet, like so many players have before. It’s time to get a proven head coach and repair the relationship.
I do wonder if the asset will be devalued in this market. You don't jumpstart a rebuild by devaluing your greatest assets in trades.
I completely agree. Even if I wanted to trade him (which I absolutely don’t), this seems like a bad year to do it.
Craig, do we know if Armstrong and Tocchet have spent significant time together yet? It would seem strange if they haven't.
I'm not sure about significant time, but they have met and talked. Armstrong is crazy busy right now.
I think I've said this in a previous comment section, but my personal opinion of what should be done is if the issue is OEL isn't clicking with Tocchet, wouldn't it be cheaper, and better for the long run success to switch coaches, rather than switch the player? But it is certainly interesting, and refreshing to see the perspectives of actual decision makers in the league.
I'm curious how Bill Armstrong views all of this.
Tocchet needs to go for multiple reasons. It’s fine for a coach to expect his players to play in his system, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. I believe by just looking at OEL’s stats under Tippett compared to Tocchet it’s apparent that the two don’t mesh. It is up to OEL now, his fate is in his own hands.
I'm merciful in my opinion of Tocchet, we see glimpses of what this team can do, just not consistently. What I don't see is the behind the scenes stuff, where coaches truly earn their paycheck. It's quite possible Tocc is doing all the right things and the players just aren't responding. It's also important to remember how much has happened to OEL since the decline started. But it is still on the coach to get the players to respond. Now, I've always believed it's cheaper to change the coach than it is the entire team. I'm putting my trust in the leadership. I like what I'm seeing so far, so I'll trust them.
Can the Coyotes realistically pull the C from him and have him stay with the team? You don’t see that very often.
It has happened, but it's rare and usually damaging to relationships.
Google searching didn't pull up much, but I did find out that in 2016 the kings took the C away from Dustin Brown and gave it to Anze Kopitar. So there is precedent for it to work out.
San Jose did it as well pretty recently. It happens. If OEL doesn't make a big deal of it, people will move on. In one sense, recognizing you're not the best choice for captain demonstrates a fir bit of leadership in and of itself.
Yeah, Thornton lost the C to Pavelski. Not sure of the background into what was happening there...
To paraphrase: GM Doug Wilson said "Joe is tired" and Joe said "stfu, Doug". Good stuff.
I didn't realize they did it to Marleau before that, too! Crazy. https://www.fearthefin.com/2014/8/20/6050839/sharks-strip-joe-thornton-of-captaincy
Modano in Dallas, too.