I am a full STH and received the letter. I will probably write a short email to Mr. Murphy. It will be why haven't the Coyotes paid their bills when they have a billionaire owner?
Thank for the real answers and analysis I’ve been wanting on this. As a Coyotes fan that just moved to Tucson, playing a game or two here would be awesome! Highly recommend it, haha.
I agree Craig that the Coyotes are in a pickle as to where to play locally. I feel for all the loyal ardent fans who in the end may lose their beloved team. I wrote about this from a fan’s perspective and hope someone steps up to fix the unfortunate situation. This team at times seems to be cursed. When we got new ownership most everyone thought the drama had subsided. Little did we know that instead it has escalated. Here’s my assessment:
I think GRA is the only option on the list. I don’t buy any of the others. I think they’ll either play their first home game of 2022-2023 in GRA or in some new hometown outside of Arizona.
Whatever amount of money it would cost the Coyotes to move to the Vet, they’ll just decide to pay some amount less than that to COG to stay in GRA.
This is all assuming the Tempe location actually pans out. If not, they may as well just skip town altogether.
I’m pretty sure COG is just posturing for a better deal. And I’m sure XG is doing the same thing when he suggests interim locations other than GRA.
I think the only real news/impact of the COG/XG statements is that the Tempe deal is now the last hope of a an NHL future in Arizona. The clock has run out for the Coyotes, but only for venue shopping for a long term home. They no longer have the luxury of waiting several more years in case Tempe falls through.
If they get Tempe on track, they’ll work out a deal GRA deal with COG. I’m pretty sure of that, at least.
If the cost of outfitting an alternate location, combined with the loss of revenue, outweighs a much more expensive version of a short term lease at GRA, that’s what they’ll do. I’m guessing COG’s demands won’t outweigh the cost of making the Vet work, as an example.
True but at this point I'd be hard pressed to get into ANY COG agreement.
I mean as reported before they broke there deal like a year after IceArizona signed it. They then unilaterally ended these negotiations. Lets say Coyotes get into a 3 year agreement, would you trust them not to then break it in a year and be back in the same spot?? I wouldnt. Better to rip the band aid off.
For my 2 cents; go to the Vet and spruce it up, a la the Isles, until a good pemantent location can be secured. Great location for the entire fan base; accessible by mass transit and lots of parking. I watched many hockey games there back in the 70's and 80's and the sightlines are great. Gotta believe that ownership could negotiate get a great deal on a 3-5 year lease. Otherwise I see the Yotes relocating to Houston, Quebec City or parts unknown. Craig, keep up the good work and keep us updated.
Watching the Islanders in playoffs last season at Nassau was fantastic. Too bad our team won’t be generating any excitement on the ice this year to replicate that type of environment.
If they end up at the vet, I'd love to see Robbie Ftorek dropping the first puck in a vintage Roadrunner sweater. The team could really have a lot of fun with this situation as long as it's short term.
Thanks for the breakdown of possibilities. I like the idea of doing the minimum to the coliseum to get us past the new arena build. Of the Coyotes invest in the coliseum they would ideally have a say in what goes on there. I see it as a huge PR opportunity to "grow the game" and the "hockey is for everyone" marketing. Obviously, they could use it for The Coyotes but with the push toward marketing to Hispanics, this is ideal as it's in their neighborhood and connects by light rail to make traffic lighter. It would bring jobs or at least cash to this neighborhood as people rent out their yards for parking, sell tamales and paletas in the push carts on the street and the back up of people pulling into parking as they do during the State fair. The Coyotes could hold hockey clinics in the off season as the Original Roadrunners did, sponsor a rival girls league to the Kachina's for this side of the valley or hold high school or junior level tournaments or even have a new "Beauty league" or "Frozen Four" for none Division 1 schools so as not to directly compete with ASU. This would go much further than the decks around town and they might even be able to work out learn to skate programs with schools they've introduced hockey to. Murello definitely wants to grow interest in hockey given that he can offer betting. I for one would love to return to the Coliseum for games, even during the rebuild to "juntar con mi gente" (get together with my people) I drive from Chandler to Tucson for at home Roadrunner games for that very vibe.
A new practice arena in Tucson is in the works? Hell yeah, the Roadrunners got me into hockey so the more effort the Coyotes put into the Roadrunners and Tucson the more excited I'll be.
I have been thinking about this all day and I’ve wondered - who else will bid of the Tempe RFP? Will the Rising put in a bid? I know they just moved to the reservation but a major league soccer venue in Tempe would be eye catching to the MLS. The gambling license thing gifted to Meruelo would go to them if they reached the top tier of American soccer.
Could the Diamondbacks put in a proposal? Kendrick seems like a guy who is aiming for a handout of public money but I’m not sure there is one in the cards from Tempe (I think there might be a bigger payout from the Salt River tribe).
Or how about this - the Diamondbacks could vacate Chase Field in 2022 if they build a new arena in Maricopa County (like say on the Salt River Reservation). With no other obvious tenant in sight, Maricopa County might be willing to split the cost to renovate and reconfigure the inside of Chase to a unique open roof hockey facility, perhaps giving back some of the excess space to a hotel or condos or something.
The Vet is probably the only option, especially as the team tries to build a new facility in Tempe. If that falls through… I’d expect to see one of the Tribes to find a way to build an arena (quickly) since it could avoid many of the pitfalls they’d experience in Tempe. PLUS it would put the Tribes an entry into the big entertainment booking the Mohegan Sun offers In Connecticut. I’m sure we will know something relatively soon.
The Sarver speculation on Tempe worries me...do you know why the RFP was extended to Sept.? I sure hope the city isn't doing anything shady, unless maybe Coyotes were the only bid received and wanted to try and garner more interest...makes me very uneasy
I feel the most likely chances are the Vet or staying in Glendale. Its really hard to figure out how serious Glendale is. I almost feel they HAVE to stick to their guns this time. If they dont it honestly will be egg face that all they do is flex their little muscle.
I almost bought a house near Vets a few years ago, its an up and coming area ... but really they need some spot, in a good location preferably along the light rail
Sarver putting in a proposal on the Tempe property is maximum chaos. I can’t do the political math on the potential repercussions.
Do you see a scenario where the Coyotes and players base themselves in Scottsdale around their practice facility, and split their schedule at the various smaller rinks you mentioned? Playing full time at ASU or Tucson isn’t viable, but scheduling a percentage of a 41 game home schedule could work - perhaps with a few “home” games in markets without a team (Mexico City, anyone?).
If Sarver is going to put soft political pressure by applying for the Tempe location, you have to think he'd get it back just as good. Phoenix won't like it, but not sure how the cities would pressure each other. Realistically, I think the NHL could pressure other NHL-NBA, cities like Boston, to hurt those NBA markets because Sarver wants to play dirty. Unlikely he'd want that pressure from fellow NBA owners, but who really knows.
you cant easily go to various small arenas. While the coyotes aren't attendance monsters, 5k not working. Not to mention the logistic challenges for media, away teams etc.
The logistics of TV and media would be a challenge, no doubt. But logistics can probably be bought more cheaply than upgrades to a 56-year-old arena. And if you're not going to see many tickets to begin with because your team is tanking, then why not do a roadshow in Flagstaff, Prescott, and Tucson? The union might not like it, but if the team based itself out of its Scottsdale training facility (which they have under-utilized in the past few years), it might work in the short term - say for the 22-23 season until upgrades in the Veterans Memorial Coliseum are done. Or what if the Diamondbacks vacate Chase Field by then (as they've been wanting to do since 2019)? It'd take some work, but you could convert Chase into a hockey facility right in downtown and use the existing Maricopa-County funded sports-related infrastructure being abandoned by Ken Kendrick. And - even better, the Coyotes could put their new sportsbook RIGHT NEXT TO the Phoenix Suns arena, and get some of their walkup traffic.
There is literally no scenario or good reason to go to a few thousand person stadiums in other areas.
Also again logistics you are basically making those road games for the players, the only logic in going to Prescott, Flagstaff or Tuscon is for preseason.
As for chase field ... a baseball stadium and hockey/basketball arena are such vastly different congiuratoins. Even converting baseball for football is a horrible experience.
Yeah, I think playing small arenas only makes sense if you get to October of '22 and don't have a regular facility ready. I would suggest that Chase Field be completely reconfigured for hockey to try to solve those problems, but yeah - not every problem can be solved.
Craig suggested it, and to be honest I'd never even considered Sarver doing something like that. He'd quickly burn any goodwill he's earned in Phoenix. Ken Kendrick and the Diamondbacks would absolutely do it, if the price was right and they could get development rights like the Braves got for their new stadium.
I am a full STH and received the letter. I will probably write a short email to Mr. Murphy. It will be why haven't the Coyotes paid their bills when they have a billionaire owner?
That bugs me.
Fair question.
Renovate the vet!
If it were to be renovated to some degree, maybe it factors in longer term? Another quality sheet of ice in AZ can’t hurt, can it?
I doubt it would be long term, suite and club sale are too much of a profit motive. Gotta have the capacity for those.
Right, I was unclear. I was just thinking more like a community ice rink that could be there when not used for other events.
True but I think with the new ASU arena that is gonna take smaller events. Regardless they do need to figure out what to do with Vets
Thank for the real answers and analysis I’ve been wanting on this. As a Coyotes fan that just moved to Tucson, playing a game or two here would be awesome! Highly recommend it, haha.
I'm in.
I agree Craig that the Coyotes are in a pickle as to where to play locally. I feel for all the loyal ardent fans who in the end may lose their beloved team. I wrote about this from a fan’s perspective and hope someone steps up to fix the unfortunate situation. This team at times seems to be cursed. When we got new ownership most everyone thought the drama had subsided. Little did we know that instead it has escalated. Here’s my assessment:
https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/08/22/arizona-coyotes-arena-ultimatum-fan-support/
You're spot on with the coliseum. The nostalgia that place brings would be great for a year or two...
Could be such a cool vibe.
I think GRA is the only option on the list. I don’t buy any of the others. I think they’ll either play their first home game of 2022-2023 in GRA or in some new hometown outside of Arizona.
Whatever amount of money it would cost the Coyotes to move to the Vet, they’ll just decide to pay some amount less than that to COG to stay in GRA.
This is all assuming the Tempe location actually pans out. If not, they may as well just skip town altogether.
I’m pretty sure COG is just posturing for a better deal. And I’m sure XG is doing the same thing when he suggests interim locations other than GRA.
I think the only real news/impact of the COG/XG statements is that the Tempe deal is now the last hope of a an NHL future in Arizona. The clock has run out for the Coyotes, but only for venue shopping for a long term home. They no longer have the luxury of waiting several more years in case Tempe falls through.
If they get Tempe on track, they’ll work out a deal GRA deal with COG. I’m pretty sure of that, at least.
It's possible they return to GRA, but I don't think you are correct about their interest in alternate locations.
If the cost of outfitting an alternate location, combined with the loss of revenue, outweighs a much more expensive version of a short term lease at GRA, that’s what they’ll do. I’m guessing COG’s demands won’t outweigh the cost of making the Vet work, as an example.
True but at this point I'd be hard pressed to get into ANY COG agreement.
I mean as reported before they broke there deal like a year after IceArizona signed it. They then unilaterally ended these negotiations. Lets say Coyotes get into a 3 year agreement, would you trust them not to then break it in a year and be back in the same spot?? I wouldnt. Better to rip the band aid off.
For my 2 cents; go to the Vet and spruce it up, a la the Isles, until a good pemantent location can be secured. Great location for the entire fan base; accessible by mass transit and lots of parking. I watched many hockey games there back in the 70's and 80's and the sightlines are great. Gotta believe that ownership could negotiate get a great deal on a 3-5 year lease. Otherwise I see the Yotes relocating to Houston, Quebec City or parts unknown. Craig, keep up the good work and keep us updated.
Madhouse on Macdowell?? That sounds incredible!
Watching the Islanders in playoffs last season at Nassau was fantastic. Too bad our team won’t be generating any excitement on the ice this year to replicate that type of environment.
If they end up at the vet, I'd love to see Robbie Ftorek dropping the first puck in a vintage Roadrunner sweater. The team could really have a lot of fun with this situation as long as it's short term.
Thanks for the breakdown of possibilities. I like the idea of doing the minimum to the coliseum to get us past the new arena build. Of the Coyotes invest in the coliseum they would ideally have a say in what goes on there. I see it as a huge PR opportunity to "grow the game" and the "hockey is for everyone" marketing. Obviously, they could use it for The Coyotes but with the push toward marketing to Hispanics, this is ideal as it's in their neighborhood and connects by light rail to make traffic lighter. It would bring jobs or at least cash to this neighborhood as people rent out their yards for parking, sell tamales and paletas in the push carts on the street and the back up of people pulling into parking as they do during the State fair. The Coyotes could hold hockey clinics in the off season as the Original Roadrunners did, sponsor a rival girls league to the Kachina's for this side of the valley or hold high school or junior level tournaments or even have a new "Beauty league" or "Frozen Four" for none Division 1 schools so as not to directly compete with ASU. This would go much further than the decks around town and they might even be able to work out learn to skate programs with schools they've introduced hockey to. Murello definitely wants to grow interest in hockey given that he can offer betting. I for one would love to return to the Coliseum for games, even during the rebuild to "juntar con mi gente" (get together with my people) I drive from Chandler to Tucson for at home Roadrunner games for that very vibe.
A new practice arena in Tucson is in the works? Hell yeah, the Roadrunners got me into hockey so the more effort the Coyotes put into the Roadrunners and Tucson the more excited I'll be.
Yup the Kino Sports complex is putting a community rink in: https://tucson.com/news/government-and-politics/pima-countys-kino-sports-complex-could-see-addition-of-ice-rinks-indoor-sports-facility/article_038110d6-a232-11eb-a51f-2357f77ba03b.html
Thanks, Rose.
I have been thinking about this all day and I’ve wondered - who else will bid of the Tempe RFP? Will the Rising put in a bid? I know they just moved to the reservation but a major league soccer venue in Tempe would be eye catching to the MLS. The gambling license thing gifted to Meruelo would go to them if they reached the top tier of American soccer.
Could the Diamondbacks put in a proposal? Kendrick seems like a guy who is aiming for a handout of public money but I’m not sure there is one in the cards from Tempe (I think there might be a bigger payout from the Salt River tribe).
Or how about this - the Diamondbacks could vacate Chase Field in 2022 if they build a new arena in Maricopa County (like say on the Salt River Reservation). With no other obvious tenant in sight, Maricopa County might be willing to split the cost to renovate and reconfigure the inside of Chase to a unique open roof hockey facility, perhaps giving back some of the excess space to a hotel or condos or something.
The Vet is probably the only option, especially as the team tries to build a new facility in Tempe. If that falls through… I’d expect to see one of the Tribes to find a way to build an arena (quickly) since it could avoid many of the pitfalls they’d experience in Tempe. PLUS it would put the Tribes an entry into the big entertainment booking the Mohegan Sun offers In Connecticut. I’m sure we will know something relatively soon.
The Sarver speculation on Tempe worries me...do you know why the RFP was extended to Sept.? I sure hope the city isn't doing anything shady, unless maybe Coyotes were the only bid received and wanted to try and garner more interest...makes me very uneasy
I had thought the Coyotes requested the 2 week extension but that was something on saw on Twitter so take it with a grain of salt.
I feel the most likely chances are the Vet or staying in Glendale. Its really hard to figure out how serious Glendale is. I almost feel they HAVE to stick to their guns this time. If they dont it honestly will be egg face that all they do is flex their little muscle.
I almost bought a house near Vets a few years ago, its an up and coming area ... but really they need some spot, in a good location preferably along the light rail
Sarver putting in a proposal on the Tempe property is maximum chaos. I can’t do the political math on the potential repercussions.
Do you see a scenario where the Coyotes and players base themselves in Scottsdale around their practice facility, and split their schedule at the various smaller rinks you mentioned? Playing full time at ASU or Tucson isn’t viable, but scheduling a percentage of a 41 game home schedule could work - perhaps with a few “home” games in markets without a team (Mexico City, anyone?).
If Sarver is going to put soft political pressure by applying for the Tempe location, you have to think he'd get it back just as good. Phoenix won't like it, but not sure how the cities would pressure each other. Realistically, I think the NHL could pressure other NHL-NBA, cities like Boston, to hurt those NBA markets because Sarver wants to play dirty. Unlikely he'd want that pressure from fellow NBA owners, but who really knows.
Phoenix has already spent their money on him, so I'm not sure what tools they'd have to exact revenge or extract concessions.
you cant easily go to various small arenas. While the coyotes aren't attendance monsters, 5k not working. Not to mention the logistic challenges for media, away teams etc.
The logistics of TV and media would be a challenge, no doubt. But logistics can probably be bought more cheaply than upgrades to a 56-year-old arena. And if you're not going to see many tickets to begin with because your team is tanking, then why not do a roadshow in Flagstaff, Prescott, and Tucson? The union might not like it, but if the team based itself out of its Scottsdale training facility (which they have under-utilized in the past few years), it might work in the short term - say for the 22-23 season until upgrades in the Veterans Memorial Coliseum are done. Or what if the Diamondbacks vacate Chase Field by then (as they've been wanting to do since 2019)? It'd take some work, but you could convert Chase into a hockey facility right in downtown and use the existing Maricopa-County funded sports-related infrastructure being abandoned by Ken Kendrick. And - even better, the Coyotes could put their new sportsbook RIGHT NEXT TO the Phoenix Suns arena, and get some of their walkup traffic.
There is literally no scenario or good reason to go to a few thousand person stadiums in other areas.
Also again logistics you are basically making those road games for the players, the only logic in going to Prescott, Flagstaff or Tuscon is for preseason.
As for chase field ... a baseball stadium and hockey/basketball arena are such vastly different congiuratoins. Even converting baseball for football is a horrible experience.
Yeah, I think playing small arenas only makes sense if you get to October of '22 and don't have a regular facility ready. I would suggest that Chase Field be completely reconfigured for hockey to try to solve those problems, but yeah - not every problem can be solved.
Is there any chance this actually happens? Sarver and Tempe, I mean.
Craig suggested it, and to be honest I'd never even considered Sarver doing something like that. He'd quickly burn any goodwill he's earned in Phoenix. Ken Kendrick and the Diamondbacks would absolutely do it, if the price was right and they could get development rights like the Braves got for their new stadium.