Spot on with the analysis, and as a Tucsonan it's especially important to find a way to get permanent ice with the Roadrunners being the only pro sports in town. I'm certain USA Hockey membership in the Tucson area will sky-rocket if anybody puts down some ice as there's not a whole lot of incentive to be a member or play hockey if there's no ice to play it on. With the number of transplants due to the weather and the Air Force base there's a huge population of people who would be happy to play hockey if they didn't have to drive to Chandler to do it. The city plopped down a tiny outdoor ice rink last December and the lines were hours long every single day just to get out on a sheet of ice a quarter of the size of a full size rink. I know for sure that the second a permanent sheet of ice goes down that my kids and I will be playing in hockey some measure.
Those member numbers really emphasize how terribly Gila River Arena is located in relation to most presumed Coyotes fans, let alone the general population.
Increased kids participation won’t be effective in terms of Coyotes franchise success if the thousands of kids participating at the Coyotes facility leave that facility wearing Blackhawks gear that they’re dads buy for them and only attend Coyotes games 2 times a year when they’re favorite team comes to town. That problem is the problem Coyote officials must figure out...that goes for the rest of the pro sports in town as well. Great article though and thanks.
Not sure how my folks did it when in NY the closest rink was 30-45 minutes away to play and with travel we often were were in Philly, etc.
Agree with the comments on roller, not needed as a heavy travel team type of environment but just as the equivalent to what is an ODR in most areas. Put down a smooth concrete surface, avoid some of the costs for sport court, etc and provide a place where kids can play and learn on their own. An outdoor basketball court doesn't have a wood floor. .I'd rather have 3 rinks at $80k instead of the one at $250k that they have been done.
Having lived in FL, TX as well along the way, the Stars have been a great model in their early days with the construction and acquisitions of the Stars Centers across the metroplex as well as other rinks which were built. They identified the need to grow the game early and invested well. They, along with Florida, were still able to ride some of the inline boom in the mid 90's through early 00's before rinks began closing.
I'll give the Coyotes credit as they have consistently had an outreach program regardless of ownership to my knowledge, which isn't always an easy thing to keep on the books.
Greg, I talked to the N Phx Legacy people last year to see if they had thought about inline hockey in a few years when the lease on Peoria expires. I'm concerned for the future since the adjacent land has been developed as residential, and selling would probably bring in more money to the land owner than leasing it again. Legacy seemed interested so I gave them Dave's number in the hopes a joint venture could be developed within their space (ice on 1 sheet, inline on the other?). Been months since I've seen any progress there, though, so their financing may have crashed in the pandemic.
You hit the nail on the head. . . . we need more ice! I quit playing beer league hockey due to 11pm start times on weeknights and now as a high school coach, the high school association has a hard time finding ice time for games. There are 36 high school teams this season in four divisions!!!
Players, coaches, penalty box attendants, and Safe Sport locker room attendants all have to registered with USAH. Not sure if or how they track high school hockey.
They track everyone who is registered so those numbers are counted. That said I was told this: "Different tool. Baking in that data to the tool is part of the road map."
Craig, I love the article but I can personally vouch that those numbers are terrible low for Tucson area (which services all southern Arizona). Tucson has a closer had 250 kids.
The 88 may come from travel teams. However, there are about to 80-100 kids in the 8u program alone.
Sadly, the Tucson program is not even running during the COVID-19 pandemic because there is no ice since the Tucson Convention Center didn’t put up ice.
Yep. I noted to someone in a tweet that I will be updating the numbers with numbers that USA Hockey is sending me today. 88 was just for Tucson city limits and numbers are down a little bit due to COVID, but I will have updated numbers in the story shortly.
I see the dates are now 2020-2021. The 88 would be accurate. I know most Tucson parents aren’t going to pay for a USA hockey number when there is no hockey.
Tucson is definitely the forgotten stepchild. We have a youth league, men's league, and figure skating and no year round ice. We have to drive to Phoenix for practice and games. Local Tucson politics needs to realize how beneficial a rink would be here. Don't get me started on the convention center either! They don't care about the volunteer based youth league.
Really interesting article. I found the comments on repurposing facilities interesting, as this is exactly what was done with an old lumber warehouse facility in Haymarket, Virginia, allowing an association that had lost a rink due to severe weather to continue operating. It was envisioned as a temporary stopgap but has led to the creation of a new association.
I think it is a terrific idea. We are going to have a lot of retail spaces that need to be reimagined soon, given the changing face of commerce and purchasing habits.
Great Article! As a hockey dad that lives in Mesa I can say that each season we have to talk about which of the Chandler or Scottsdale Dens or Glibert Ice makes the most sense for our player and his development and weigh that against the drive time and schedules. Not the easiest set of choices to make.
So grateful to have Jay Lively rink here in Flagstaff! It was a real tragedy when the roof collapsed, but was able to be rebuilt, better than ever! Many a hockey player has enjoyed this rink!
Wow - those numbers blow my mind! Here's some perspective, if anyone's interested: Thunder Bay, Ontario (population ~100,000) has 9 indoor rinks in city and area, or more than half that of the whole state of Arizona. If you count outdoor rinks, that number rises to about 46 in winter.
Of course, I would imagine outdoor rinks would be harder to maintain in Arizona, even in the northern part of the state...
Was the new Mesa rink built in a repurposed building? The building is there on Google maps from a few years ago, but I can't tell what was in that space before the rink opened earlier this year.
Yes, it was bowling and paintball. That's what the big sign on Country Club still says. If you're not looking for the bowling/paintball sign, it's very easy to miss the entrance.
Spot on with the analysis, and as a Tucsonan it's especially important to find a way to get permanent ice with the Roadrunners being the only pro sports in town. I'm certain USA Hockey membership in the Tucson area will sky-rocket if anybody puts down some ice as there's not a whole lot of incentive to be a member or play hockey if there's no ice to play it on. With the number of transplants due to the weather and the Air Force base there's a huge population of people who would be happy to play hockey if they didn't have to drive to Chandler to do it. The city plopped down a tiny outdoor ice rink last December and the lines were hours long every single day just to get out on a sheet of ice a quarter of the size of a full size rink. I know for sure that the second a permanent sheet of ice goes down that my kids and I will be playing in hockey some measure.
Love it.
Those member numbers really emphasize how terribly Gila River Arena is located in relation to most presumed Coyotes fans, let alone the general population.
Maybe, but you might also make the argument that if there were more sheets in the West Valley, they might have more players. Chicken & egg...
Increased kids participation won’t be effective in terms of Coyotes franchise success if the thousands of kids participating at the Coyotes facility leave that facility wearing Blackhawks gear that they’re dads buy for them and only attend Coyotes games 2 times a year when they’re favorite team comes to town. That problem is the problem Coyote officials must figure out...that goes for the rest of the pro sports in town as well. Great article though and thanks.
I'd really love to see the yotes take some more interest in roller hockey as part of their plan as well.
It is on their radar. Xavier Gutierrez mentioned that to me in a previous conversation.
Not sure how my folks did it when in NY the closest rink was 30-45 minutes away to play and with travel we often were were in Philly, etc.
Agree with the comments on roller, not needed as a heavy travel team type of environment but just as the equivalent to what is an ODR in most areas. Put down a smooth concrete surface, avoid some of the costs for sport court, etc and provide a place where kids can play and learn on their own. An outdoor basketball court doesn't have a wood floor. .I'd rather have 3 rinks at $80k instead of the one at $250k that they have been done.
Having lived in FL, TX as well along the way, the Stars have been a great model in their early days with the construction and acquisitions of the Stars Centers across the metroplex as well as other rinks which were built. They identified the need to grow the game early and invested well. They, along with Florida, were still able to ride some of the inline boom in the mid 90's through early 00's before rinks began closing.
I'll give the Coyotes credit as they have consistently had an outreach program regardless of ownership to my knowledge, which isn't always an easy thing to keep on the books.
That is great to hear 🙂
Greg, I talked to the N Phx Legacy people last year to see if they had thought about inline hockey in a few years when the lease on Peoria expires. I'm concerned for the future since the adjacent land has been developed as residential, and selling would probably bring in more money to the land owner than leasing it again. Legacy seemed interested so I gave them Dave's number in the hopes a joint venture could be developed within their space (ice on 1 sheet, inline on the other?). Been months since I've seen any progress there, though, so their financing may have crashed in the pandemic.
You hit the nail on the head. . . . we need more ice! I quit playing beer league hockey due to 11pm start times on weeknights and now as a high school coach, the high school association has a hard time finding ice time for games. There are 36 high school teams this season in four divisions!!!
That's a really good point. I'm not sure how/if USAH tracks high school hockey, but I will ask and update the story.
Players, coaches, penalty box attendants, and Safe Sport locker room attendants all have to registered with USAH. Not sure if or how they track high school hockey.
They track everyone who is registered so those numbers are counted. That said I was told this: "Different tool. Baking in that data to the tool is part of the road map."
Interesting. I appreciate the information.
Craig, I love the article but I can personally vouch that those numbers are terrible low for Tucson area (which services all southern Arizona). Tucson has a closer had 250 kids.
The 88 may come from travel teams. However, there are about to 80-100 kids in the 8u program alone.
Sadly, the Tucson program is not even running during the COVID-19 pandemic because there is no ice since the Tucson Convention Center didn’t put up ice.
Yep. I noted to someone in a tweet that I will be updating the numbers with numbers that USA Hockey is sending me today. 88 was just for Tucson city limits and numbers are down a little bit due to COVID, but I will have updated numbers in the story shortly.
I see the dates are now 2020-2021. The 88 would be accurate. I know most Tucson parents aren’t going to pay for a USA hockey number when there is no hockey.
Correct. USAH actually had 483 Tucson members last year. They will probably return to somewhere close to that after COVID. There is a clear need.
Tucson is definitely the forgotten stepchild. We have a youth league, men's league, and figure skating and no year round ice. We have to drive to Phoenix for practice and games. Local Tucson politics needs to realize how beneficial a rink would be here. Don't get me started on the convention center either! They don't care about the volunteer based youth league.
Cannot for the life of me figure out how Tucson does not have an arena. This HAS to happen.
Really interesting article. I found the comments on repurposing facilities interesting, as this is exactly what was done with an old lumber warehouse facility in Haymarket, Virginia, allowing an association that had lost a rink due to severe weather to continue operating. It was envisioned as a temporary stopgap but has led to the creation of a new association.
I think it is a terrific idea. We are going to have a lot of retail spaces that need to be reimagined soon, given the changing face of commerce and purchasing habits.
Great Article! As a hockey dad that lives in Mesa I can say that each season we have to talk about which of the Chandler or Scottsdale Dens or Glibert Ice makes the most sense for our player and his development and weigh that against the drive time and schedules. Not the easiest set of choices to make.
Strange that a city as large as Mesa still only has one ice sheet.
So grateful to have Jay Lively rink here in Flagstaff! It was a real tragedy when the roof collapsed, but was able to be rebuilt, better than ever! Many a hockey player has enjoyed this rink!
Flagstaff: Home of the state's first DI college program!
Wow - those numbers blow my mind! Here's some perspective, if anyone's interested: Thunder Bay, Ontario (population ~100,000) has 9 indoor rinks in city and area, or more than half that of the whole state of Arizona. If you count outdoor rinks, that number rises to about 46 in winter.
Of course, I would imagine outdoor rinks would be harder to maintain in Arizona, even in the northern part of the state...
~Graham
Was the new Mesa rink built in a repurposed building? The building is there on Google maps from a few years ago, but I can't tell what was in that space before the rink opened earlier this year.
Yes, it was bowling and paintball. That's what the big sign on Country Club still says. If you're not looking for the bowling/paintball sign, it's very easy to miss the entrance.