Happy for Tocchet as Im guessing he will make a million more per season than the Yotes were willing to pay him. Im assuning thats where the conversation started and ended.
Rick did pretty darn well around here with the tools he was given. He won't be unemployed long.
Going to be an interesting offseason. One domino down. Let's hope they draft well with those two early second rounders, resign Goose. Trade Kuemper to Colorado for Kaut, Compher and a pick after Grubauer gets hurt and Avs get eliminated with Dubnyk and Johannsson in net. Ship OEL to the Oilers so he can have a chance at a cup while signing RNH for five years to center the first line. Expose Keller in the expansion draft. Name Chychrun captain. Sign Garland and Bunting. Trade for Frans Nielsen from the Wings (or any other horrible one year contract attached to a good guy) for a pick. So many wishes. Can't wait for your articles this summer and your comments on some of the ridiculous stuff I propose.
He has been dead man walking all year, tough position to be in. Haven’t been his biggest supporter but also agree he has gotten a lot out of his hand. Goalies who can’t stay healthy, one true top 4 defenseman the past couple of years and at best a bunch of middle six players.
No way ownership was paying for 2 coaches with as much as they have bled this year.
Good for Tocc -- didn't know his low pay and hands tied for input into personnel decisions. Even as a top AC on a better team he will do better. IMO he got all the juice from the Yotes team possible. The guy is a class act. Yotes GM has big challenge ahead this off season. Any coach hired will have a tough time getting more from this roster. How the GM can upgrade the team talent will be interesting unless the owner wants to shell out money for FAs. Craig keep us updated and keep up the good work. You are the best.
Van Ryn has long seemed like the guy who Armstrong would be angling to bring to the desert - young, familiar with the organization and players, and has a winning pedigree. I'd be quite happy with him.
Someone else mentioned Todd Nelson and I fully agree he'd be a great choice - anecdotally, I have heard extremely positive things about him from an NHL agent family friend.
This makes me sad because I believe Tocchet is a better coach than he is given credit for by some. He took a group of players, half of whom would be marginal NHLers on any competitive team in the league, and had them in playoff discussion three out of his four years. That's amazing.
I have a feeling Seattle or Columbus may come calling. Seattle needs a coach who can bring people together quickly, and the Blue Jackets need a culture change.
Tocchet is a good coach and I think he did as much as he could. I’m not surprised though that Armstrong wants to pick his own coach. This is one of the biggest decisions Armstrong has had to make, so it will be interesting to see where he goes with it
I think Craig Morgan fans tend to be very pro-Tocchet. I’m a big fan of Morgan but not of Tocchet. In that way, I’m definitely a minority. But I do think there are plenty of Coyotes fans who aren’t AZCI and Natty Hatty subscribers that are celebrating today. These two crowds don’t seem to mix much online. I like all Coyotes fans :)
How many times did the team come out flat and fall behind 2-0 or 3-0? Too many. Tocc said that was him, and it was. The only complaint I have about the move is that it came a year too late.
Friendly reminder: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink it.
Motivation is on the player, plain and simple. A leader can do everything to get a person ready...but it's on the player to show up ready to play. Tocc took the blame on that because he is a leader. As a leader, he believes there is something he could have done differently to impact the motivation.
I'm going to assume you have worked a job you hated...right? I'm going to follow that assumption up with years of studies done in the HR world: When an employee isn't happy, or wanting to be there, they are inherently less productive. So it's safe to assume that in that job you hated, you were not as productive as you could have because you lacked the motivation. By extension: why do the players come out flat? They lack motivation. Why do they lack that motivation? Because they are losing. Why are they losing? They are a team of probably about half AHLers playing against NHLers. They respond to falling behind because now they are playing for pride....and pride is a great motivator, but it only carries for so long. *sorry that went alot longer than I was planning in my head*
Yes, I've been in the corporate world for over 35 years and have multiple side businesses, leading teams of 700 employees. Did I have jobs I hated, yes? Earlier in my career. Did it make less productive, no....it made me work harder to find another position. Years of HR studies also point to individual leaders as the reason employees leave jobs.
Now professional hockey is different than Corp America. Players are highly paid at a young age and many times are locked into contracts.... the dynamic is considerable different. Is motivation on the player, absolutely. Is it on the coach to get as much as possible of player, also yes. There is plenty of blame to go around and I agree the line-up is a border-line playoff roster at best. Most good teams have a strong leadership group, but that was sorely lacking with the Coyotes this past season. Starting with OEL who doesn't display the type of leadership you'd expect from your captain.
It's not all on Tocc, but you can't fire 20 players, easier to fire 1 coach.
I think that part about hating job may have been a miscommunication on my part and distracted from my primary point, which is: When motivation isn't there, performance is down. Performance can meet the standard set and still be down from where it could be. Imagine if McDavid only reaches 97 points next year...that's a darn good season, but everyone would scream "What's wrong?!" You are also right, years of HR studies do show poor leaders are the primary reason employees leave. And that poor leaders can have a direct impact on performance across the board. Even causing top performers to under perform.
Corp America really isn't that different from professional sports. The difference is salary size, and the existence of term contracts that don't exist in Corp America (outside of some executive teams and I think sales and tech will sometimes use them...I think). I'd argue that this does not change the dynamic though. You have your executive team (Owner, et al), your department manager (Coach, GM, Assistant Coaches), and then you have your entry level management (Captain and Alternates) and then your front line workers. And you are right: it's much easier to fire 1 person than firing 20.
Tocc is not absolved of his responsibility, and I agree that Tocc has had his short comings, and this "firing" is probably necessary...but it is not the leaders job to provide motivation. A leader's job is to provide all the tools and resources necessary to succeed. It is the front line worker's job to show up motivated and to use those tools and resources.
So... it wasn't Tocchet, it was that 20 players coincidentally happened to lack motivation (even those that had no problem finding it with other teams)? No one is claiming that the team's struggles lie squarely on his shoulders, but to pretend like he wasn't a factor is just plain bananas.
"How many times...Tocc said that was him, and it was..." Sounds like some one is claiming the team's struggles lie squarely on his shoulders. What player on this year's roster went on to find success elsewhere? I'm looking at players that have left this roster in recent years and trying to find one that is truly succeeding right now....there isn't much. Strome just rode the pine for the 4th time in...what 9 games? Perlini...where is he? Domi sure is blowing it up out there in Columbus...how about Duclair? 10 goals and 21 assists...not bad...but....a world beater? nope. I'm not saying Tocc is absolved of his role in this, he has *appeared* to have failed to motivate this team and connect with this team. And that's on him to find a way to better communicate with the team. But motivation is on the player...not the coach. The coach provides the player the tools to succeed, the player goes out and succeeds or fails on their own. Maybe Tocc needs to find a new way to manage his practices and what practice time he has? But none of us have the access to make that assessment. I'm not out here saying Tocc is innocent in this or that he is the perfect coach...but I'm making a point that motivation is much more on the player. *again, sorry for the length*
I just think too many nights he was asked to bring a knife to a gun fight. I also agree, however, this is a chance to improve. I just hope they don't worry more about cost than quality.
Thanks Craig for the update. Rick Tocchet is a very good coach, considering the circonstances in the last year. I would like to see him coaching the CBJ. I saw him discussing hockey issues with Travis Green and Rod Brind'Amour. I like how he addresses issues, honest and plain (without the hardass style of Torts).
I'd take that bet :) Remember his first season with the Coyotes when they lost 10 straight to start the season? Back then everyone said that it was the learning curve of his complicated system and lack of practice time in it. I don't see any reason to think it will be different with another team next year.
Reminder: This year, the average playoff team currently has 16 losses. A good team, can still make the playoffs even with losing the first 10 games.
And "everyone" in this case was fans with higher hopes for that roster than it really deserved. Look at the 17-18 roster and you will see plenty of fan favorites, and a few players that actually played well (Keller at 65 points is a standout)...but that roster would struggle to beat this years roster for talent. If he lands at a more talented roster...I'd bet they get off to a better start.
The roster may not have been great, but a 10 game losing streak is inexcusable with just about any current NHL team (except maybe some of the recent Red Wings rosters). The Coyotes setting a winless record was not a foregone conclusion before the season began and certainly not inevitable regardless of who ended up being the coach. Lots of new faces, sure, but remember that they were winning game 1.
But to say that Tocc is the sole reason that team lost 10 in a row is pretty...out there. I'm not trying to downplay the 10 game losing streak, but that team was not good...and it's not just Tocc's fault that 10 losses happened.
And reminder: other teams have had long losing streaks in the middle of their season (not as long as 10 games but 5-8 games is still long) and gone on to have playoff success..yet these don't get the same attention.
But how many set literal NHL records. Like, that's baaaad. I doubt we'll come to agree on this because I'm in the camp that thinks that two children in a trenchcoat would constitute a coaching improvement as a head coach and you're a bit more of a Tocchet apologist. He's a good skill developer, but I think he lacks the overall vision of a head coach and doesn't know how to manage all of the responsibilities of a head coach.
I'm just a lot more of a realist here...Tocc is being blamed for things he has no control over. That's my problem.
I'm even in the camp that the team needs a coaching change. I probably would have been incredibly sour if Tocc came back. I think this change, along with some form of change in leadership role for OEL would give him a rebirth, and I think this will get Keller, and some of the other underperformers to maybe get back up to what we expect from them.
But that being said, I do think Tocc can find himself on a team that is built much more to his style, and he can be much more successful. Probably my biggest thought is: Chayka wanted to build the team a certain way, Tocc wanted a different style roster and those 2 didn't mesh.
I go back and forth on this, that 1) he was kept this season so that Merulo did not have to pay another coach for a season / partial season or 2) GMBA was truly evaluating him this season and the teams poor play after the trade deadline is what sunk him. No playoffs, no extra revenue, no draft choices, just a bad ending to the season.
Personally, I look forward to who is hired. I hope to see a younger coach out of the AHL or college ranks and not a NHL coaching retread. That would help keep the salary lower and bring newer ideas to the job. Then there is Mike Van Rin, current assistant coach of the Blues and former Roadrunner coach. Have not heard a thing, but he was a good AHL coach and BA knows him.
can't say i'm surprised. this always happens when a new regime comes in: new owner wants their guy as GM, new GM wants their guy as HC, etc. and, if Rick Tocchet is as much of a competitor as the other Hockey Men™ claim he is (whatever meaning that word has, anyway, considering that lackadasicalness doesn't get you very far as an NHL coach), he probably doesn't much want to be running a team that just isn't there yet as far as playoff contention. i can't say i blame him.
that being said, i think the foundation is there for building a successful franchise. the Roadrunners may not have performed that well, per se, but the past 5 years have been fantastic as far as building a competent and solid farm system (how else would we have developed players like Michael Bunting?). it sucks that, i think, a lot of the fanbase got their hopes up, but i think the Coyotes should take it slow and steady, now that steady ownership (at least, on paper) exists for this franchise.
Craig, you mention that Tocchet wanted more say in personnel decisions. I wasn't aware that this was an issue. Any chance you could expand on that comment?
Van Ryn makes sense, but I am very interested to see who GMBA brings in to fill the other positions. Do you think there is a chance that they add a president of hockey operations, or back-fill the positions in Tucson? I really want GMBA to remake the organization into St. Louis West, and bring that tough style of hockey. I'm looking forward to seeing him flex his drafting skills, and hope he puts a team in place that can develop the talent in our prospect pool.
Happy for Tocchet as Im guessing he will make a million more per season than the Yotes were willing to pay him. Im assuning thats where the conversation started and ended.
Rick did pretty darn well around here with the tools he was given. He won't be unemployed long.
Going to be an interesting offseason. One domino down. Let's hope they draft well with those two early second rounders, resign Goose. Trade Kuemper to Colorado for Kaut, Compher and a pick after Grubauer gets hurt and Avs get eliminated with Dubnyk and Johannsson in net. Ship OEL to the Oilers so he can have a chance at a cup while signing RNH for five years to center the first line. Expose Keller in the expansion draft. Name Chychrun captain. Sign Garland and Bunting. Trade for Frans Nielsen from the Wings (or any other horrible one year contract attached to a good guy) for a pick. So many wishes. Can't wait for your articles this summer and your comments on some of the ridiculous stuff I propose.
^^^ If 1/2 of this happens, I'd still consider it a successful offseason.
I think they can get more for Kuemper than you have suggested. Or at least I hope they can.
If we got Colorado's #1, Martin Kaut, Compher and Johannsson for Kuemper, I"d be well pleased.
He has been dead man walking all year, tough position to be in. Haven’t been his biggest supporter but also agree he has gotten a lot out of his hand. Goalies who can’t stay healthy, one true top 4 defenseman the past couple of years and at best a bunch of middle six players.
No way ownership was paying for 2 coaches with as much as they have bled this year.
Good for Tocc -- didn't know his low pay and hands tied for input into personnel decisions. Even as a top AC on a better team he will do better. IMO he got all the juice from the Yotes team possible. The guy is a class act. Yotes GM has big challenge ahead this off season. Any coach hired will have a tough time getting more from this roster. How the GM can upgrade the team talent will be interesting unless the owner wants to shell out money for FAs. Craig keep us updated and keep up the good work. You are the best.
Van Ryn has long seemed like the guy who Armstrong would be angling to bring to the desert - young, familiar with the organization and players, and has a winning pedigree. I'd be quite happy with him.
Someone else mentioned Todd Nelson and I fully agree he'd be a great choice - anecdotally, I have heard extremely positive things about him from an NHL agent family friend.
This makes me sad because I believe Tocchet is a better coach than he is given credit for by some. He took a group of players, half of whom would be marginal NHLers on any competitive team in the league, and had them in playoff discussion three out of his four years. That's amazing.
I have a feeling Seattle or Columbus may come calling. Seattle needs a coach who can bring people together quickly, and the Blue Jackets need a culture change.
Tocchet is a good coach and I think he did as much as he could. I’m not surprised though that Armstrong wants to pick his own coach. This is one of the biggest decisions Armstrong has had to make, so it will be interesting to see where he goes with it
I’m so thrilled with this news. So, so relieved.
You seem to be in the minority.
I too am thrilled.
I think Craig Morgan fans tend to be very pro-Tocchet. I’m a big fan of Morgan but not of Tocchet. In that way, I’m definitely a minority. But I do think there are plenty of Coyotes fans who aren’t AZCI and Natty Hatty subscribers that are celebrating today. These two crowds don’t seem to mix much online. I like all Coyotes fans :)
How many times did the team come out flat and fall behind 2-0 or 3-0? Too many. Tocc said that was him, and it was. The only complaint I have about the move is that it came a year too late.
Friendly reminder: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink it.
Motivation is on the player, plain and simple. A leader can do everything to get a person ready...but it's on the player to show up ready to play. Tocc took the blame on that because he is a leader. As a leader, he believes there is something he could have done differently to impact the motivation.
I'm going to assume you have worked a job you hated...right? I'm going to follow that assumption up with years of studies done in the HR world: When an employee isn't happy, or wanting to be there, they are inherently less productive. So it's safe to assume that in that job you hated, you were not as productive as you could have because you lacked the motivation. By extension: why do the players come out flat? They lack motivation. Why do they lack that motivation? Because they are losing. Why are they losing? They are a team of probably about half AHLers playing against NHLers. They respond to falling behind because now they are playing for pride....and pride is a great motivator, but it only carries for so long. *sorry that went alot longer than I was planning in my head*
Yes, I've been in the corporate world for over 35 years and have multiple side businesses, leading teams of 700 employees. Did I have jobs I hated, yes? Earlier in my career. Did it make less productive, no....it made me work harder to find another position. Years of HR studies also point to individual leaders as the reason employees leave jobs.
Now professional hockey is different than Corp America. Players are highly paid at a young age and many times are locked into contracts.... the dynamic is considerable different. Is motivation on the player, absolutely. Is it on the coach to get as much as possible of player, also yes. There is plenty of blame to go around and I agree the line-up is a border-line playoff roster at best. Most good teams have a strong leadership group, but that was sorely lacking with the Coyotes this past season. Starting with OEL who doesn't display the type of leadership you'd expect from your captain.
It's not all on Tocc, but you can't fire 20 players, easier to fire 1 coach.
I think that part about hating job may have been a miscommunication on my part and distracted from my primary point, which is: When motivation isn't there, performance is down. Performance can meet the standard set and still be down from where it could be. Imagine if McDavid only reaches 97 points next year...that's a darn good season, but everyone would scream "What's wrong?!" You are also right, years of HR studies do show poor leaders are the primary reason employees leave. And that poor leaders can have a direct impact on performance across the board. Even causing top performers to under perform.
Corp America really isn't that different from professional sports. The difference is salary size, and the existence of term contracts that don't exist in Corp America (outside of some executive teams and I think sales and tech will sometimes use them...I think). I'd argue that this does not change the dynamic though. You have your executive team (Owner, et al), your department manager (Coach, GM, Assistant Coaches), and then you have your entry level management (Captain and Alternates) and then your front line workers. And you are right: it's much easier to fire 1 person than firing 20.
Tocc is not absolved of his responsibility, and I agree that Tocc has had his short comings, and this "firing" is probably necessary...but it is not the leaders job to provide motivation. A leader's job is to provide all the tools and resources necessary to succeed. It is the front line worker's job to show up motivated and to use those tools and resources.
So... it wasn't Tocchet, it was that 20 players coincidentally happened to lack motivation (even those that had no problem finding it with other teams)? No one is claiming that the team's struggles lie squarely on his shoulders, but to pretend like he wasn't a factor is just plain bananas.
"How many times...Tocc said that was him, and it was..." Sounds like some one is claiming the team's struggles lie squarely on his shoulders. What player on this year's roster went on to find success elsewhere? I'm looking at players that have left this roster in recent years and trying to find one that is truly succeeding right now....there isn't much. Strome just rode the pine for the 4th time in...what 9 games? Perlini...where is he? Domi sure is blowing it up out there in Columbus...how about Duclair? 10 goals and 21 assists...not bad...but....a world beater? nope. I'm not saying Tocc is absolved of his role in this, he has *appeared* to have failed to motivate this team and connect with this team. And that's on him to find a way to better communicate with the team. But motivation is on the player...not the coach. The coach provides the player the tools to succeed, the player goes out and succeeds or fails on their own. Maybe Tocc needs to find a new way to manage his practices and what practice time he has? But none of us have the access to make that assessment. I'm not out here saying Tocc is innocent in this or that he is the perfect coach...but I'm making a point that motivation is much more on the player. *again, sorry for the length*
I completely agree. :)
I just think too many nights he was asked to bring a knife to a gun fight. I also agree, however, this is a chance to improve. I just hope they don't worry more about cost than quality.
In that case he failed to practice throwing the knife well enough and fast enough to win. ;-)
Can't wait for the new Salt River arena news. 😁
Or at least the rumors all off season
This news is Bravo Sierra.
I am not happy but I wish Coach Tocchet all the best, along with a good ownership group, going forward.
Thanks Craig for the update. Rick Tocchet is a very good coach, considering the circonstances in the last year. I would like to see him coaching the CBJ. I saw him discussing hockey issues with Travis Green and Rod Brind'Amour. I like how he addresses issues, honest and plain (without the hardass style of Torts).
$10 says Tocchet takes a team to the playoffs next year and every Canadian talking head spends the year ripping the Coyotes for letting him go.
I'd take that bet :) Remember his first season with the Coyotes when they lost 10 straight to start the season? Back then everyone said that it was the learning curve of his complicated system and lack of practice time in it. I don't see any reason to think it will be different with another team next year.
Reminder: This year, the average playoff team currently has 16 losses. A good team, can still make the playoffs even with losing the first 10 games.
And "everyone" in this case was fans with higher hopes for that roster than it really deserved. Look at the 17-18 roster and you will see plenty of fan favorites, and a few players that actually played well (Keller at 65 points is a standout)...but that roster would struggle to beat this years roster for talent. If he lands at a more talented roster...I'd bet they get off to a better start.
The roster may not have been great, but a 10 game losing streak is inexcusable with just about any current NHL team (except maybe some of the recent Red Wings rosters). The Coyotes setting a winless record was not a foregone conclusion before the season began and certainly not inevitable regardless of who ended up being the coach. Lots of new faces, sure, but remember that they were winning game 1.
But to say that Tocc is the sole reason that team lost 10 in a row is pretty...out there. I'm not trying to downplay the 10 game losing streak, but that team was not good...and it's not just Tocc's fault that 10 losses happened.
And reminder: other teams have had long losing streaks in the middle of their season (not as long as 10 games but 5-8 games is still long) and gone on to have playoff success..yet these don't get the same attention.
But how many set literal NHL records. Like, that's baaaad. I doubt we'll come to agree on this because I'm in the camp that thinks that two children in a trenchcoat would constitute a coaching improvement as a head coach and you're a bit more of a Tocchet apologist. He's a good skill developer, but I think he lacks the overall vision of a head coach and doesn't know how to manage all of the responsibilities of a head coach.
I'm just a lot more of a realist here...Tocc is being blamed for things he has no control over. That's my problem.
I'm even in the camp that the team needs a coaching change. I probably would have been incredibly sour if Tocc came back. I think this change, along with some form of change in leadership role for OEL would give him a rebirth, and I think this will get Keller, and some of the other underperformers to maybe get back up to what we expect from them.
But that being said, I do think Tocc can find himself on a team that is built much more to his style, and he can be much more successful. Probably my biggest thought is: Chayka wanted to build the team a certain way, Tocc wanted a different style roster and those 2 didn't mesh.
Would depend on which team and what talent
I go back and forth on this, that 1) he was kept this season so that Merulo did not have to pay another coach for a season / partial season or 2) GMBA was truly evaluating him this season and the teams poor play after the trade deadline is what sunk him. No playoffs, no extra revenue, no draft choices, just a bad ending to the season.
Personally, I look forward to who is hired. I hope to see a younger coach out of the AHL or college ranks and not a NHL coaching retread. That would help keep the salary lower and bring newer ideas to the job. Then there is Mike Van Rin, current assistant coach of the Blues and former Roadrunner coach. Have not heard a thing, but he was a good AHL coach and BA knows him.
can't say i'm surprised. this always happens when a new regime comes in: new owner wants their guy as GM, new GM wants their guy as HC, etc. and, if Rick Tocchet is as much of a competitor as the other Hockey Men™ claim he is (whatever meaning that word has, anyway, considering that lackadasicalness doesn't get you very far as an NHL coach), he probably doesn't much want to be running a team that just isn't there yet as far as playoff contention. i can't say i blame him.
that being said, i think the foundation is there for building a successful franchise. the Roadrunners may not have performed that well, per se, but the past 5 years have been fantastic as far as building a competent and solid farm system (how else would we have developed players like Michael Bunting?). it sucks that, i think, a lot of the fanbase got their hopes up, but i think the Coyotes should take it slow and steady, now that steady ownership (at least, on paper) exists for this franchise.
Craig, you mention that Tocchet wanted more say in personnel decisions. I wasn't aware that this was an issue. Any chance you could expand on that comment?
I will soon.
Van Ryn makes sense, but I am very interested to see who GMBA brings in to fill the other positions. Do you think there is a chance that they add a president of hockey operations, or back-fill the positions in Tucson? I really want GMBA to remake the organization into St. Louis West, and bring that tough style of hockey. I'm looking forward to seeing him flex his drafting skills, and hope he puts a team in place that can develop the talent in our prospect pool.
I agree about Van Ryn.